interview with Neanderthal

What´s the name of your band? Neanderthal

How was the band formed? (Alec) When I moved to Southend from London I kind of had a break from being in bands. I'd just gotten married and soon after my daughter was born so it was a natural time for me to leave it alone for a bit. That 'bit' ending up by being about 2 years! I went to see a live show at Chinnerys, must've been 2010 or something like that and was a bit surprised that there were actually metalheads in Southend, I hadn't really met any there previously. It spurred me on to hunt down some musicians. I wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do but I knew I wanted to play the guitar and sing and generally front a band, something I had never done before. I was jamming with a drummer called Nick for a good year, just the two of us. We got on well and laid down a few songs, some of which became the foundations for some of the material that we still play in the band today (I wrote Griefeaters and Reason around that time). However, we didn't wanna be the white stripes so we decided to part ways till we could find some other band mates. I managed to do so, with Adam and Jon replying to adverts online, but when they turned up to the first rehearsal Nick decided he couldn't commit to it. Luckily I got on with both of them straight away and they were shit hot musicians, I mean, it blew me away how well they'd learnt the songs from some home video camera rehearsal footage of me and Nick. It was at the first rehearsal we wrote Insomnia and it hasn't changed much since then, structurally I mean. Then began the “drum machine” era as I refer to it where we wrote most of the songs that are on the “Dawn of Reason” ep. The final piece of the puzzle was of course Joe on drums. He was the only drummer that we had turn up that could handle what we wanted (and we do ask a lot!) and the youngest. Since then it's all sort fallen into place.

Can you tell me about your band?

(Adam) Neanderthal is a metal band based in Southend on Sea, Essex, England. The music is quite vast, but I usually describe it as thrash with progressive elements… Even now I couldn’t classify it as one particular genre!

(Jon) We used to call ourselves a thrash band, but that doesn’t really describe us. We come from varied musical backgrounds and it all combines into one. I’ll call it ‘henge metal’ for the lulu.

Where are all band members from? /Who does what in the band?

(Adam) I’m from Southend and Alec is from London. Jon is from Barking and Joe is from Shoeburyness. I am the lead guitarist who is also the band's technical wizard with guitar maintenance and rig building. Alec is the main vocalist and rhythm guitar player in the band. He brings many years of experience playing in metal bands to the group. Jon is the bassist and is responsible for making the band sound incredible in any mix or production we need. He also does some pretty cool backing vocals/screams/shouts. Joe is the drummer for the band and does a superb job of making sure everyone stays together in time. 

Could you explain your music to someone that hasn't heard you?

(Jon) No. In a word. It’s kind of like Metallica, but not really, sometimes Dream Theater, but again not really. We don’t really know what to describe ourselves as, we don’t really know any other bands who we sound like. So we just say “We’re a metal band. Have a listen and see if you like it.”

(Adam) Pretty heavy. Pretty technical. Pretty fast. All-round awesome! 

(Alec) Just listen to it!

Where was your first gig? (Adam) My first ever gig was at the Comedy Pub in London playing my solo project with a backing track. Tiny crowd, but it helped get over the initial stage fright any musician has when they are first starting out. With Neanderthal, our first gig was at Chinnerys in Southend. It was pretty good! A tough crowd to please, but we came out of it with good feedback. 

Where was the latest gig? (Adam)We recently had a tremendous gig in Kingston, which is just outside of London, last month. Lots of people stayed to see us and gave us an incredibly good response. 

Who writes your songs?/Who writes the music?/Who writes lyrics? (Alec) Jon and Adam will sometimes write entire songs from start to finish, I did when I was writing on my own but now I prefer to come in with some riffs and ideas, keep an open mind and have everyone dig in. I think Joe likes to come up with stuff off the cuff as well just as we're jamming it. Everyone helps in the process, it really is a 4 way thing.

(Jon) Everyone contributes different things. Anyone will come along with a riff (even the drummer!) and we’ll decide if we like it, develop it, add sections, add lyrics and voila, you have a Neanderthal song.

Who has the best since of humor in the band?

(Jon) We’re all pretty amusing when we want to be, but Alec has done some stand up and he’s generally worth a chuckle.
(Alec) I think we're all pretty good humoured.

(Adam) Tough question! Everyone has their own sense of humour... But Alec always impresses me with his on-stage jokes! 
What's good/bad with the band?

(Alec) Good? Well the whole thing or else I wouldn't bother! Bad? Well you always want to do more when it's a good thing.

(Jon) Good: The skill level of everyone, how easy going we all are, how dedicated everyone is to the band.
Bad: We can’t do as many gigs or practice as much as we’d like because we all have work/band/other commitments that get in the way constantly. If only I won the lottery I’d shove a bunch at each of the guys and we could make it a full time thing! If they wanted to, that is…

(Adam) There are so many good things in this band… It’s fun and exciting to be with the guys. Sometimes after finishing a really dark and disturbing song, we’ll randomly crack into some crazy happy tune, or Jon will play one of the Mario theme tunes. Whether it’s recording, writing, playing, doing gigs… It always energises me. The bad things… Really, just wish I could do it more often! The real world of work and other commitments is relentless.

What genre do you feel you are?

(Alec) I literally have no fucking clue when it comes to genres. I'd like to say “Heavy Metal” because no one calls themselves that anymore.

(Jon) Just ‘Metal’ really. If pushed I usually go with ‘melodic progressive thrash.’

Why did you pick that particular style?

(Jon) We didn’t pick it per se, it just evolved into that. We brought the music each of us likes to the table and it combined into a homogenous lump of heavy awesome.

(Alec) It picked me!

(Adam) Our style is really a culmination of all our different influences, which is probably why we have such vastly different sounding songs. One of my favourite stories is the solo from Destination Paradise. Jon wrote the whole thing and asked me to play it note for note. I was happy to do that, and using my own style of soloing, just brought it life and instantly made it sound like a Neanderthal song.

What are your songs about?

(Jon) Various things, we go from songs about issues of bogus spiritual mediums to songs about night terrors, commentary on various terrorist attacks to rants about unreasonable bastards.

(Alec)A lot of different things, lyrically I do tend to still use music as a bit of a weapon for targeting things that piss me off, but there's some reflective stuff in there too and a love song for my wife. I know, big softie right?

(Adam) A whole range of things. We usually choose themes and write around those, for example, uprising and rebelling against the system.

Do you write your own material or mainly covers?

(Adam) We write our songs. We have a couple of covers up our sleeves in case we need them though.

(Jon) Our own material. We like to play covers sometimes just because it’s interesting to take someone else’s music and see what you can do with it.

Have you made any albums? If yes what are they? (Adam) We released our debut EP in September. It's called 'The Dawn of Reason' and can be streamed or purchased from all the big digital retailers, (iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, etc.)

Do you have any clips on YouTube? (Adam) There are a few fan video recordings on YouTube and some clips from rehearsals. They can be found on our YouTube page: http://www.youtube.com/user/NeanderthalSouthend

How old are you?/What got you started in music? (Adam) I’m 25, Jon is 24, Alec is 32 and Joe is 17.

At what age did you start playing?

(Jon) When I was in year 6, some people came around the classrooms asking if anyone would be interested in learning a brass instrument. That’s where I started. In terms of the bass, about as long as I’ve been in Neanderthal. I’ve been playing the guitar since I was 15, and the trumpet since I was 11ish.

(Adam) I got my first guitar for my 16th birthday: the Epiphone Les Paul. I went through various guitars over the years and sold most of them to afford to my current setup, but that one guitar still lives under my bed in its case.

(Alec) 12. I should be a lot better than I am for the amount of years I've played!

How old were you guys when you first stood on stage?

(Alec) I was actually christened onstage so I beat most people in this category! (Although technically I wasn't standing.)

(Adam) I was 17 when I first stood on stage. It was a talent contest at school. I remembered about 5 seconds of my piece and then completely forgot the rest of it! My first gig was in London when I was 22.

(Jon) 12? 13? Something like that. School concerts and all that.

What year was the band started?

2012

Best/worst gig you've played?

(Jon) There’s a few really good ones, but our second gig at Chinnerys was awesome, we had some people who recognised us and they dragged all their friends in, even though they were there for another band. We had a few pits going, it felt great!
Worst gig…None really come to mind for Neanderthal but my other band, Spectral Darkwave have played a couple of gigs where we had an audience of seven. 5 of which were one of the other bands, and one was the sound guy. It’s a real downer when you’ve put so much effort into your music then you don’t get many people turn up to hear it.

(Alec) The best gig I've played with Neanderthal was probably our 2nd stint at Chinnery's. We weren't expecting the reaction we got, especially as we were on first. I don't think we've done any bad ones with Neanderthal yet, for me personally I remember playing with a covers band I was in, somewhere in London. We were usually tight as a drum, for some reason we just couldn't get anything right that night! The sound was shit, the turnout was shit, I just wanted to get to the end as quick as possible, never a good feeling.

(Adam) For me personally, my favourite Neanderthal show was the most recent at Kingston. It was the first time I had taken my Mesa Triaxis out on the road and it sounded absolutely fantastic. The crowd was really digging our songs and the whole atmosphere was just perfect. 

What places will you be playing in in the immediate future?

(Jon) You’d have to ask one of the others. I’m totally clueless. I can barely organise myself out of bed in the morning, so I just get told when to turn up and where and come along. Haha!

(Adam) We are going to be playing in Basildon this month and Southend next month. Next year we want continue expanding around our local area.

Where have you played from then till now? (Jon) It’s mostly been in the Essex area. A couple in London.
Which band is the best you´ve seen?

(Alec) Tough one, I've seen some great live gigs over the years. Probably Pantera.

(Adam) My personal favourites will always be Dream Theater. 

(Jon) For me it would probably have to be Iron Maiden. It was my first proper gig, and they blew me away.
Is it always the same songs live?

(Jon)At the moment, yes. For the most part we try to have the 5 tracks we’ve polished the most in the set. We add other treats as well when we have a long enough slot.

(Adam) For the moment, we have kept most of the songs the same to tie in with the release of the EP, although there are a number of new ones on the way...

What has been the best/most promising gig so far? (Jon) Most promising was probably the most recent gig at The Fighting Cocks. Both my bands were playing it. Turned out pretty good in the end, too.

Have you had any bigger tours from start to now?

(Jon) Sadly no, I’d definitely love to do a tour though!

(Adam) If a couple of weeks ever opened up for all four of us, then I’d stop at nothing to send us out around England for a tour! Who knows, maybe one day!

How big crowds do you usually play for?

(Jon) 20-30ish people? It’s not exactly stadium level, but I appreciate anyone having a listen, all the better if they enjoy it.

What are the plans for the rest of the year?

(Jon) Gig, gig, gig. Get some merch going, grow the fanbase, and just keep having fun with it.

(Adam) We are aiming to get a couple more gigs in before the end of 2014, one of them definitely in Southend. We are also starting to sell the EP and looking into the first set of merchandise.

Where do you usually play? (Jon) Mostly around Essex.

How do you get psyched up for a gig?

(Adam) I do my best to relax and chill. I always have a pre-show ritual to complete to help me do this.

(Alec) I don't really have any kind of ritual or anything like that, I just chill then play.

(Jon) Cider. Lots of cider.

What are your goals with your music?

(Jon)Ideally I’d like to be able to survive on it. I have no delusions about being huge and making millions, no one does that in metal anymore I don’t think, but if I could get by on my music, that would be perfect.

(Alec) Just to have a decent body of work to look back on.

(Adam) If this were the 80’s and I wasn’t a full time teacher, I’d say become the next greatest guitar player… Because who wouldn’t? Fast forward to today, and I’d love to make music which could be seen and heard by people all around the world. If I were given the opportunity to make a decent living from it I would certainly jump on it though.
When did you decide to go all in for the music?

(Jon) When I started learning the guitar, I loved it.

(Adam) Probably around the time I was at university. I wasn’t a huge “going out” student at all and spent a lot of my spare time teaching myself music. It was around that time which I got my first Sterling by Musicman guitar and started to look into customising and tweaking those to my own specs.

Is it easier to get your inspiration from older bands or from bands more modern?

(Adam) I think it is all down to personal opinion. I draw my inspiration from bands both new and old. 

(Jon) It’s hard to say really. I don’t actually listen to that much music, but I grab ideas from everything I listen to. I like to kind of pay homage to different bands with my songs, sometimes it comes out as something great.

(Alec) I draw from any band I like the sound of, be they old or new.

What are your sources of inspiration?

(Adam) We write songs based on things that have happened to us personally, or about major things happening in the world. One of our new songs is about making a stand and rising against the powers that govern us, whereas something like Reason is a plain old love song. I personally use music to convey my own thoughts, feelings and opinions.

(Jon) Thoughts. I get a thought and try to represent that in music form. That’s what I like to say, anyway!

What's the first step when making a new song?

(Jon) Riff. Just play. Let it flow, then you’ll hear something and say “Ooh, that was cool. What did I do there?” Then it usually links itself together from there for me.

How do you feel about the downloading of music instead of buying albums?

(Alec) As much as I like having the tactile thing of a CD and it's inlay to look at, that era of technology is dying out. You won't find too many people with a vast VHS collection these days and I think CDs will go the same way eventually, so there's no point being against it, you'd just be pissing in the wind.

(Jon)I like having a physical album, all the artwork and such, but it’s silly to hang on to such a space-consuming medium when you can get TONS of music on one storage unit. I don’t like illegal downloads, I think people should purchase music that people have put time, effort and money into. I think the others disagree with me there, but I just feel like people take for granted how much goes into making music and making it sound good.

(Adam) In terms of legal downloading… I am absolute for it. For us, getting the EP onto the internet was a very easy and painless process. Now anyone can download it onto any device through almost every electronic store. My personal music library continues to grow and having it available on iTunes Match has made life a lot easier for me. I do however enjoy getting physical copies of my favorite bands as a collector’s item. Now illegal downloading… If you asked me 10 years ago when it was all kicking off, I was completely for it simply because I was a poor student living at home and didn’t know better. Knowing how much work goes into the production of album, I now ensure all my albums are legitimately bought or downloaded to give as much support as I can to artists.

What would be your dreams for the band? 

(Jon) To be headlining a major festival and have it filled out. If I walked out on stage and I saw 30,000+ people staring up at me, chanting ‘Neanderthal!’ and screaming themselves hoarse as I play the intro to Insomnia I could die on that stage a very happy man.

(Adam) To do what any other band in the world would wish for: to have a long, happy and successful career together. Touring the world, seeing all the big cities, having fans excited to see you at every show.

Besides your own music, what genres and bands do you listen to?

(Adam) I primarily listen to progressive music, (Dream Theater, Pink Floyd, Opeth and so on) but also enjoy classical/orchestral, film/game soundtracks, classic rock, instrumental rock and most metal. 

(Alec) I quite like movie and TV themes.

(Jon) It’s mostly metal, I like more atmospheric, mood based metal than full on speed stuff. Symphonic, gothic, doom, folk metal are my favourites. I also listen to a fair amount of psytrance, I just love how it sounds like the future, I can imagine planets and space stations and starships when I close my eyes. I love that in music. Everything else is kind of few and far between. A bit of classic rock, some orchestral music, musicals, even a bit of pop. My favourite bands at the moment would probably be: Draconian, Nightwish and The Devin Townsend Project, or maybe Gojira.

(Joe) Chris Adler from Lamb of God and Mike Mangini from Dream Theater.

What do you hold most dear?

(Adam) My family. My band. My friends. The life I have been so fortunate to receive. 

(Alec) My family.

(Jon) I ask myself this question a lot, but I honestly can’t work it out. Sorry if that seems like a cop out.

What would be your greatest fears for the future?

(Adam) Losing all of the above!

(Alec) Loss, but then you can't live in fear can you?

(Jon) That I’ll be stuck in the same place for too long, not advancing while others overtake me and soar away.

When you are on stage, what do you fear most then?

(Adam) Aside from something breaking and not being able to fix it, (a risk I take every time I use my über technical setup!) probably falling over and losing the flow of the song entirely! 

(Alec) It used to be something going wrong with my guitar, now I fear losing my voice halfway through a song.

(Jon) I’m not sure. I’ve had a bunch of stuff happen to me, equipment malfunctions, almost falling over. I pulled my jack lead out of my amp once and suddenly a song lost all its balls, which was kind of embarrassing. I’ve never had someone heckling me, though. That would probably be the biggest fear. I’m not good at confrontation and having someone being a dick would probably drive me into my own little box.

(Joe) The drum kit falling apart on stage.

What songs and what years were they released?

(Jon) All the songs on the Dawn of Reason were released on September the something or other. Check it out, it’s good!

(Adam) The Dawn of Reason was released on September 22nd on all major digital stores.

Have you been part of any other projects?

(Jon) I’m part of what I call a folk metal ‘project’ because it’s just me and another dude who lives in the US, so gigs are a bit of a problem. We’re called Obibeard. It’s kind of tongue in cheek and fun. There were also various projects when I was at university studying music technology.

(Adam) I wrote a few songs as part of my own solo instrumental project, (Hysteresis Effect) and played them live a couple of times. 

(Joe) Among lots of cover bands and a few other styles of bands, The Velvet Tree and Walk in Coma.

Have you been in any other bands?

(Alec) Yeah loads over the years!

(Jon) I’m in one other band called Spectral Darkwave. Another band that is hard to pin down. People describe us as like Opeth, Devin Townsend, and Mastodon. All kinds of things. It’s kind of doomy sci-fi inspired kind of melodic death metal. It’s weird. I love it. There were of course the bands of youth, when I first started playing. The first was called ‘SlapKunt.’ Yeah…It was 3 guitarists, so you can imagine how that went. Also did a gig as a band called ‘Just Add Rum’ in university with my housemates. It was good fun. I wish we’d done more.

What do you work with outside of the band and the music?

(Alec) I'm a chef.

(Jon) I work in Tesco. I know, right?

(Adam) I’m a full time school teacher who also does tuition in English and Maths, as well as private guitar lessons.

What would you do if there was no music?

(Adam) Cease to exist! 

(Alec) Play some!

(Jon) As I was growing up I had various plans at different times. First was a train driver, then a writer, then a soldier, then a fighter pilot, then a personal tutor, then a teacher. If I didn’t have music I would probably join the army. Haha.

How important are your fans?

(Jon) Well, they listen to the music, they share us around, they support us, they like what we do. I’m eternally grateful to anyone who has ever shared us with their friends because they wish us well. The music would still be there without them, but if a band plays awesome metal and no one’s around to hear it, is it really awesome?

(Adam) Without fans, there would be no music. They decide how successful we are in what we do and we would be absolutely lost without them. 

(Joe) One of the most important things there is.

What's the funniest/most memorable thing a fan has done for you?

(Adam) At the previous Kingston gig, one fan came to me after the show, got on his knees and started to worship me! I can’t remember his name for the life of me, but he completely loved the show.

(Jon) Uhh…let’s just say a very good time!

How often do you rehearse? (Adam) Once a fortnight.

Where do you rehearse? (Jon) Studio 3 in Southend. Great place. The owner is a fantastic chap, very helpful, and the facilities are lovely. Well kept, well equipped and at a bloody fantastic price. Anyone in the area: I recommend it wholeheartedly.

Name 2 of your own songs you like at the moment?

(Alec) I always get a kick out of Insomnia. There's a new one we've got going on at the moment called Seeing Is Not Believing, it's shaping up to be a killer!
(Adam) My two favourite songs are Negative Feedback and Seeing Is Not Believing, a new one we are working on.

(Jon) My favourites have to be Griefeater, because I love the subject matter and Insomnia because it was our first song we ever wrote. It came together on our first time meeting each other and I get a nice solo! Haha.

(Joe) Griefeater and Negative Feedback.

What do you feel is the best live band you've seen?

(Adam) A very difficult question… Every time I see Dream Theater they are amazing, although I think my favourite live band would probably be either Transatlantic, (a prog super group with insanely long songs that still keep a crowd engaged for the whole 3 hour show!) or Flying Colors (another super group with shorter songs but each person in the band is a delightful and talented character.)

(Jon) As above, Iron Maiden.

What drives a band that isn't all that famous and renowned to try to make a living on their music and to keep playing? (Jon) I’m not expecting to make a living on my music. I think the goal is to break even really! I do it because it’s not an effort. I never say ‘I really don’t want to play this show.’ It flows, it’s just what I’m good at.

Do you have any webpages? (Adam) We do! You can find everything about us on our website: www.neanderthalband.com

Any pearls of wisdom for all other bands out there?

(Adam) Practice and perseverance. You won't get anywhere without them. Also be prepared for a whole lot of disappointment sometimes. It won't always work out and it's those who fight on past that who will eventually reach their goals. 

(Alec) Don't be in a band as an excuse to do something else like get pissed or high or hang out with the in-crowd. There's plenty of people doing that already, do it because you love music and you want to make music for likeminded people.
(Jon) I wouldn’t presume to have any wisdom on the matter at this point. I suppose the best thing would be to understand that you’re not the only person in the band, and you couldn’t do it all alone, so don’t be a dick to your band mates. Oh, and communicate!

(Joe) Never stop practicing your instrument and never be selfish, keep it in your head that the other band members are your family away from your family so treat them as such.

Describe your show, visually and musically (Jon) Sometimes fast, sometimes angry, sometimes spooky, haunting at times and good fun. Visually there’s a lot of almost falling over while circle head banging on my part, lots of dumb little stage moves and plenty of hair!

How do you view the music industry of today?

(Jon) It’s a crumbling mess that needs a massive restructure, lest we lose it forever.

(Adam) It still exists?

What advice would you like to give other bands?

(Jon) Turn up on time to sound check. That’s the sound engineer in me speaking. Seriously, I hate it when a band arrives 15 minutes before doors and wants more than a line check. And don’t be arrogant, don’t be dicks to the other bands. We’re all in this together. Sure, we’re competing, but we all love the same thing: Music, metal. Support each other.

(Adam) Really, just like any job people do: you need to be professional, although you should only pursue it if it’s fun and enjoyable. I love being in Neanderthal because we do both of those. When something needs to get done, we all sit down, put our serious faces on and sort it out. Then once that is finished, we can go out and have a good time doing what we do best.

What are the biggest obstacles for a band?

(Jon) Getting an audience in an over saturated market.

(Adam) Whatever level you’re at, it’s getting that first “break”. Getting our first ever gig was a massive job and took a lot of emailing and pestering. Fortunately, Joe knows a few people so the process became easier once we knew who to talk to. If you know the right people, it all becomes easier.

What is best/worst with playing the clubs?

(Jon) Best: Having your music heard, enjoying a night out with your brothers (and/or sisters!) in music and having people tell you how much they enjoyed it.
Worst: People who ruin it for others by doing things like stealing equipment (I’ve lost a power lead before going on stage to someone’s grabby hands and held up the entire show because I needed to borrow one, for example.) Or spilling beer on equipment, being ignorant and selfish. It’s a real downer when you have a great audience, competent sound guy and then some rock star thinks they can do what they like.

Tell us about upcoming gigs and why we should be at them?

(Jon) Again, the other guys can tell you where and when. You should be there because we are different to other bands, and have put lots of effort into delivering great music.

(Adam) We are playing Chinnerys in Southend on November 21st. If you want to see four guys enjoying what they do best while delivering a powerful and adrenaline fuelled show, then you should definitely be there!

How would you describe your sound in one sentence?

(Alec) Hard to categorise.

(Jon) I don’t know! It would feel arrogant. Have a listen and answer for me!

(Adam) You decide!

What is your favorite crappy instrument?

(Jon) 9+ string guitars. It’s just like…Why do you need that many strings!? But they sound pretty cool in a stupid way.

(Adam) I use to own a terrible Strat copy a few years ago. It was good for smashing.

What was one of the most quarrelsome times for you in the band?

(Jon) We never argue about anything. It’s a bit eerie, really. We all contribute our ideas, decide what we think works best through reasoned points and we usually accept that this is how it’s going to be. Everyone knows what they’re doing, so there’s very little in the way of problems that arise.
I’m dreading getting Joe to practice to a metronome for when we record the album, though. (Sorry Joe!)

(Adam) There was one time when we were trying to write a part of one of the newer songs where I was getting incredibly frustrated because I couldn’t figure out what it needed to sound like. Everyone else had it down but I just couldn’t get my head around it no matter which way I looked at it!

What’s your Pre-show ritual?

(Adam) I always find the time to have a warmup session before we go on. It is usually around 15-20 minutes to make sure I'm both physically and mentally prepared, so stretches, scales, practicing some of the harder parts of songs... That sort of thing. 

(Jon) Drink cider. Relax. Be inconspicuous. Then explode onto the stage with drivey fat bassy goodness.

Do you have anythingtoadd?

(Jon) That was fun. Thank you for the interview.

(Adam) Thanks for the chance to take part in the interview! We hope everyone enjoyed reading it. If you haven’t listened to The Dawn of Reason, you can find it on all the big digital distribution sites, (iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, etc.)

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